main@FMtuners.groups.io | BMW autos - HD Radio (2024)

David Obergoenner

I would notexpect that at all!I expect analogFM to continue to be with usfor as long as I have ears to listen to it with. But that's just thisinsiders opinion.

Most folks I know in the business don't even expectHD Radios to meet 50% penetration for at least a decade...perhaps longer.Until the use of analog FM radios drops below about 10%, no broadcaster willhaveANY desire to shut-down their analog FM service. That may neverhappen.

The only way it would, is if the USFederalGovernment figures out some way that it can make money from the shut-down.Unlike theHUGEspectrum give-back driving the digital TV conversion,I don't see any way that can happen to FM...because the analogFM and thedigitalshare the very same spectrum.Make no mistake about it,the cash from the auctioning off of all that spectrum into the USTreasuryiswhat's reallydriving the forcedDTV thing.

IBOC may trulybe the "blessing indisguise" for lovers of analog FM! At the very least it will extend it'slife for decades over a digitalservice which could very easilyhavebeen in another band. If all those "evil" US broadcasters hadn't stoodtheir ground, and opposed a terribledigital system like Britain wound upwith, things would be much different here.

Think about it.

Dave O.

Tim Britt & Ann Weatherwax

Dave,

Your argument make perfect economic sense to us. IOHO, we think the
fate of HD Radio hinges on Detroit and Japan: If Ibiquity doesn't get
their HD system into more car radios in the next 2 or 3 years, we
think it will take decades to hit that 50% penetration unless they can
figure out a way to give away HD Radios in cereal boxes ;-)

And you know XM and Sirius are going to do everything they can to
maintain exclusivity with the auto brands they have business
relationships with. We've already seen some small signs that the
satellite companies are going to oppose HD Radio, with XM now offering
3 years of free programming with certain car models.

And it will be interesting to see if the analog TV cut-off date slips.
Why we note this is that we recently went shopping for a VCR/DVD combo
and much to our surprise discovered that all of the new models have
had the analog TV tuner pulled out of them and not ONE we came across
had an HDTV tuner built-in.

This is noted on the box and on the unit via a peel-off sticker, but
Bubba ain't reading no stinkin' sticker: Sales people at Target,
Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City told us that they were getting
huge numbers of returns on these units when people bought them, got
home and discovered there was no analog TV tuner in the VCR section.

Is this perhaps a precursor of what will happen with the analog TV
cut-off date? A Sony rep in one of the box stores told us he had heard
discussion were now being held in Washington to push this date out
some more.

We've read that the government expects to receive about $15 Billion
from the spectrum auction, but when we're running Trillion dollar
deficits, $15 Billion is mere pocket change, and the cost of the 2
HDTV converters per household $40 voucher has to come out of this $15
Billion, so the actual revenue the government takes in will be even less.

David Obergoenner

Agreement from meon all countsTim!

The war on HD Radio (and terrestrial radio ingeneral)by the satellite companies has already gotten pretty ugly.Lots of slimy stuff, under the table money, consultants who pass themselves offas being "impartial"...actually being paid-off by them,Washingtonbuy-your-votetactics,etc.

To the best of my recollection, one of the largestinvestors in XM is General Motors. Just guessing it will be forever beforewe see a factoryHD radio in a Chevy. The HD thing may nevertake-off. Most of us in the business know that it is a long-terminvestment at best. A lot of big money (at least to broadcasters)isbeing placed on the bet that it eventually will however.

The good news in the US is, at least we are notbeing forced off onto some other band of all digital, super-compressed signalsas they are in the UK. Now if the US broadcasters could justgettheir collective acts together, and start producing programming people reallywant to hear, terrestrial radio might survive in this country...be it analog ordigital.

It's just SOinconsistent. Some marketshavea bunch ofreally great stations...both from a programming and asignal quality point of view...and a muchwider variety of formats.Others (like where John Blives) are just all crap, all across thedial. Frankly, those stations deserve to die a painful death.Perhaps eventually, some folks with better, and widertastes will come intopower, and improve things in the markets where things a pitifullybad.

But what do I know, I'm just abroadcastengineer, who loves to play with tuners.

Dave O.

PS, I didn't know about the tuner issue withVCR/DVD units BTW...thanks for cluing me in.

Excellent! I am now even happier with my MAXX.

One question......where did all the public radio stations get the
funding to purchase and install HD broadcast equipment? They all
cry 'we're poor' all the time, yet seem to all have HD. Even the
smaller market stations. Thanks.

Glenn

--- In FMtuners@..., "David Obergoenner" <daveo@...> wrote:

To the best of my recollection, one of the largest investors in XM is

General Motors. Just guessing it will be forever before we see a
factory HD radio in a Chevy. The HD thing may never take-off. Most of
us in the business know that it is a long-term investment at best. A
lot of big money (at least to broadcasters) is being placed on the bet
that it eventually will however.

Dave,

sail_c2

--- In FMtuners@..., "David Obergoenner" <daveo@...> wrote:

It's just SO inconsistent. Some markets have a bunch of really

great stations...both from a programming and a signal quality point of
view...and a much wider variety of formats. Others (like where John B
lives) are just all crap, all across the dial. Frankly, those
stations deserve to die a painful death. Perhaps eventually, some
folks with better, and wider tastes will come into power, and improve
things in the markets where things a pitifully bad.

Dave and all:

This, of course, is why young folks plug their I-pods in their ears
and don't know about radio--it's their way of listening to what they
want to hear and what they like, instead of having to put up with
somebody else's choices.

When I was a kid, pop music was on AM radio. I could get one (one!!)
top-40 rock station, which was what I liked then. It was the bane of
my parents' existence. But I recall how annoying it was when you had
to listen to one of the sappy songs you didn't like, hoping that the
next one would be a really good one. At night, we could get a big
clear-channel station from NY or Boston or Windsor. Then by the time
I got to college there was a trend to "underground" album-oriented
rock, the stuff you never heard on top-40 stations, on FM. I took my
Packard-Bell tuner from about 1949 back to college with some rabbit
ears, trying to get the local "undeground" station's feeble signal.
The appeal was that the station offered new, interesting music, what I
wanted to hear instead of the pablum the big advertisers wanted me to
hear over on the top-40 stations.

Gradually the corporate types figured out that album-oriented rock
could be a big market, and the independence of local DJs was curtailed
in order to make it easier to impose corporate strategies for
money-making. Now, the kids escape this imposed playlist phenomenon
by making their own, going to the internet and picking what they want
to hear and what they find interesting. Broadcasting over the air has
been purchased and now is owned by the profit-maximizing types, the
kinds Oscar Wilde had in mind when he spoke of people who know the
price of everything and the value of nothing.

These days, I escape corporate broadcasting by limiting my listening
to local public radio. I love the variety and depth of classical
music. There's the weekly foray into American popular music on
Prairie Home Companion and on American Routes and a local, very good
blues show (available to everybody 8-11 pm Sundays at wcmu.org, by the
way). When I give a listen to corporate radio, it's the same damned
trash, repeated over and over, with a few right-wing exhorters thrown in.

We made a bad public-policy bargain when the FCC abandoned its rules
requiring news, public-interest programming, and favoring local
ownership and control.

Chris Campbell

Mike Thompson

--- In FMtuners@..., "Tim Britt & Ann Weatherwax" <timbritt@...> wrote:

And it will be interesting to see if the analog TV cut-off date slips.
Why we note this is that we recently went shopping for a VCR/DVD combo
and much to our surprise discovered that all of the new models have
had the analog TV tuner pulled out of them and not ONE we came across
had an HDTV tuner built-in.

This is noted on the box and on the unit via a peel-off sticker, but
Bubba ain't reading no stinkin' sticker: Sales people at Target,
Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City told us that they were getting
huge numbers of returns on these units when people bought them, got
home and discovered there was no analog TV tuner in the VCR section.

Am I reading this correctly, are you saying that none of the new
models include a tuner of any kind, analog or digital?

Is this perhaps a precursor of what will happen with the analog TV
cut-off date? A Sony rep in one of the box stores told us he had heard
discussion were now being held in Washington to push this date out
some more.

We've read that the government expects to receive about $15 Billion
from the spectrum auction, but when we're running Trillion dollar
deficits, $15 Billion is mere pocket change, and the cost of the 2
HDTV converters per household $40 voucher has to come out of this $15
Billion, so the actual revenue the government takes in will be even less.

I thought the reason Congress finally set a hard date for the
shut down of analog Television was because of homeland security
issues?

John

eicomx99

--- In FMtuners@..., "gpdavis2" <gpdavis2@...> wrote:

Excellent! I am now even happier with my MAXX.

One question......where did all the public radio stations get the
funding to purchase and install HD broadcast equipment? They all
cry 'we're poor' all the time, yet seem to all have HD.

Maybe from the Billions of bucks the owner of the McDonald's chain
left to them in her will? I don't feel THAT sorry for them during
membership drives--

Even the

smaller market stations. Thanks.

Glenn

--- In FMtuners@..., "David Obergoenner" <daveo@>

wrote:

To the best of my recollection, one of the largest investors in

XM is

General Motors. Just guessing it will be forever before we see a
factory HD radio in a Chevy. The HD thing may never take-off.

Most of

us in the business know that it is a long-term investment at

best. A

lot of big money (at least to broadcasters) is being placed on the

bet

that it eventually will however.

Dave,

eicomx99

--- In FMtuners@..., "sail_c2" <clcampbell@...> wrote:

--- In FMtuners@..., "David Obergoenner" <daveo@>

wrote:

It's just SO inconsistent. Some markets have a bunch of really

great stations...both from a programming and a signal quality

point of

view...and a much wider variety of formats. Others (like where

John B

lives) are just all crap, all across the dial. Frankly, those
stations deserve to die a painful death. Perhaps eventually, some
folks with better, and wider tastes will come into power, and

improve

things in the markets where things a pitifully bad.

Dave and all:

This, of course, is why young folks plug their I-pods in their ears
and don't know about radio--it's their way of listening to what

they

want to hear and what they like, instead of having to put up with
somebody else's choices.

When I was a kid, pop music was on AM radio. I could get one

(one!!)

top-40 rock station, which was what I liked then. It was the bane

of

my parents' existence. But I recall how annoying it was when you

had

to listen to one of the sappy songs you didn't like, hoping that

the

next one would be a really good one. At night, we could get a big
clear-channel station from NY or Boston or Windsor. Then by the

time

I got to college there was a trend to "underground" album-oriented
rock, the stuff you never heard on top-40 stations, on FM. I took

my

Packard-Bell tuner from about 1949 back to college with some rabbit
ears, trying to get the local "undeground" station's feeble

signal.

The appeal was that the station offered new, interesting music,

what I

wanted to hear instead of the pablum the big advertisers wanted me

to

hear over on the top-40 stations.

Gradually the corporate types figured out that album-oriented rock
could be a big market, and the independence of local DJs was

curtailed

in order to make it easier to impose corporate strategies for
money-making. Now, the kids escape this imposed playlist

phenomenon

by making their own, going to the internet and picking what they

want

to hear and what they find interesting. Broadcasting over the air

has

been purchased and now is owned by the profit-maximizing types, the
kinds Oscar Wilde had in mind when he spoke of people who know the
price of everything and the value of nothing.

These days, I escape corporate broadcasting by limiting my

listening

to local public radio. I love the variety and depth of classical
music. There's the weekly foray into American popular music on
Prairie Home Companion and on American Routes and a local, very

good

blues show (available to everybody 8-11 pm Sundays at wcmu.org, by

the

way). When I give a listen to corporate radio, it's the same

damned

trash, repeated over and over, with a few right-wing exhorters

thrown in.

We made a bad public-policy bargain when the FCC abandoned its

rules

requiring news, public-interest programming, and favoring local
ownership and control.

Chris Campbell
It's kind of ironic. When I lived in Florida, the only classical

stations available were on NPR. Out here in the San Francisco Bay
Area, the only classical station available is a commercial station.
All the NPR stations are now Talk Radio stations.